Union Bears

**R13** · October 23rd, 2011, 09:58 PM

Well tell us all what specifically Phil would have done differently in these games that they have lost that would have changed the outcome, love to hear all about it. Tell us what Palmer would have done differently to change the outcome of these losses. It's really not outlandish to think that the great Phil, that was what 5-5 just last year, adds some players from a shitty Appy team just might have gotten beat by better teams.They've gotten beat by a better team every time, so please tell me how Robbins/Palmer/God/whoever would have changed that in any way and beat Cwood, beat Richlands, beat GC etc. etc.? I said they would have the same record, maybe one more win MAYBE and that's with Central...not really because of Phil/Palmer, but because they're pretty even and it can go either way, so if that's so off the wall and I'm so clueless...tell me how I'm wrong.

This doesn't even have that much to do with consolidation, I've said the same thing about PV and Appy before that clinging to the glory days of years past doesn't change reality and that reality is the talent level is a fraction of what it was during that time. The good old days were over last year as well when they were individual schools and they still are today. Every team starts out with a clean slate each year, some teams have higher expectations than others almost always because of how they have performed the season prior(perhaps the reigning district/regional/state championship), but that isn't the case with Union because Appy/PV's previous seasons coming into this one have ranged from shit to mediocre. It's especially a clean slate with a combined school playing under a new banner, in a few years they'll be in a 25mil school and it's even less relevant to blather about past success from many years ago.

They certainly have carried a big part of PV with them and that's the attitude that they are better than what they really are.

**MikMo** · October 24th, 2011, 07:45 AM

God damm if you all on here don't bicker more than people I hear at the Union games, and that's saying a lot.

I'll say it till the day I die, it only takes a few bad apples to ruin the bunch. I'm sure these kind of idiots are present in every fan base. I like to consider myself as one with a little common sense, although I do get caught up in the bickering now and then. It amazes me how some people can get on here and call for Turners' head after one season. Has there been some coaching decisions that are of a questionable nature? Yes. But its nothing that shouldn't be expected from a first year staff in a first year program. I think Turner will be alright...his dad did go to the championship his first year, but didn't make the playoffs till about 85 or 86 if I'm not mistaken, and 89 till a state championship.

Now I gripe and fuss at the games when I think this should have been called or that should have been called, but that is my right as a fan and the purchaser of a ticket. Every fan is an armchair quarterback to some extent, but to take it to the extreme is preposterous. When all is said and done people, it is just a game...the sun is going to come up in the morning despite what happened in the game.

**stainless** · October 24th, 2011, 08:01 AM

There was a lot of hype for the Union Bears not only from there fans, but newspapers and even the polls on the local news. Everyone knows it was all based on the past history of the programs.

The thing that gets me is Union is 10 points away from being a 2 loss or 1 loss team. You Union fans also have to remember that your dealing with teenagers.

I've seen Union play one time this year and i've seen them on youtube a few times. The problem I see is that the coaching staff is playing kids out of postion.

This is jus all my opioion.

**Biggin** · October 24th, 2011, 04:01 PM

So a coach with 7 state titles and 300 wins, a VHSL Hall of Famer, would do no better than a new coach in his first year at a new program and his first year as a head coach period? Okay.

**R13** · October 24th, 2011, 04:33 PM

I said he would have the same record, why? Because they were beaten by a better team and it doesn't matter if Phil had 600 wins and 14 titles(we're again talking about 80's/90's in their glory days), they would have still lost all of those games. Would some plays here and there be different? Sure, but the outcome would be the same. Again, until you tell me what phil or Palmer would have done so differently to change the outcome of those games and fill in the gap in talent...then this whole Turner thing is moot, which it is, because you can't say that their season would have been significantly different no matter if it was Turner or not. They're just not that good, plain and simple, crucifying Turner doesn't change that no matter how much Union fans want to think so. Everyone can see it except them.
'

**CoeburnCane** · October 24th, 2011, 05:26 PM

Look folks--there's a large leap to be made from great HS player to great HS head coach. Some people can do it, some can't.

Not a HS example--but look at Miami's last coach before Golden...Randy Shannon. Guy was a pretty good linebacker at UM, and cut his teeth elsewhere as a coordinator before taking on the Miami job as his first HC job. He simply wasn't ready for it. He should have been able to take a lower-tier job before taking a high profile job at UM, and he struggled greatly in the spotlight of the job, instead of being allowed to struggle as a HC at a lesser program and learn on the job.

Maybe Turner should have gotten his first HC job at a local HS with less tradition, then there wouldn't have been as much pressure, and he wouldn't be getting killed for making rookie HC mistakes. I've got a feeling that if you give Turner, say, 5 years--he will improve as a HC. Now, does that mean he's the long-term answer at Union? I don't know. It all depends on how he develops as a HC. But--he's got the job, and it's up to the AD at Union, whomever that is, as to whether or not they're going to give him time to show if he can be a good HC there. Folks at Union don't need to knee-jerk at this season. It's new for everyone. Let things develop, and see if he can pull together a program--which doesn't happen overnight.

I'm not talking down to anyone either--because I don't know the situation. If there's certain things that he's doing that show currently that he's not going to be a good HC (lack of in-game discipline, adjustments, not utilizing personnel correctly, etc), then maybe it's not going to work out. But, you've got to give the guy more than one season to figure it out.

**sup-rbeast** · October 24th, 2011, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Unchained

So many folks on here ragging their coaching staff out,but at some point folks have to remember that this is a first-year unit,and gelling doesn't have a timetable. Truth be told there's not that plethora of talent there that the folks from Appy and BSG think is there (everybody OUTSIDE of BSG/APPY will agree with me). I see the same level of talent there as the rest of the league and region for that matter.Union was hyped up so much that folks started believing the hype before/without hitting the gridiron. In every situation there's always going to be convienant scapegoats,and I am sure that Travis Turner understands that,but to all you armchair coaches out there that think you can do better? By all means go to school,get your degree and apply when it opens after you all run him off. Trust me we folk at Central have learned much this season. Jason Mullins was dead and buried after the Castlewood debacle,and headhunters were running rampant. Funny what four wins later can do (and I have to man up and admit I was very critical of not Mullins but Hicks). Sometimes ESPECIALLY with a first-year unit patience is needed (while in short supply at UHS right now). It is not like Union is losing to pitiful teams either guys (even the Central bunch folks were so down on have really stepped it up). There are no easy nights in the LPD,and toss in folks like Richlands and it's not going to be a bed of roses. Just because you combine two storied programs which used to be great but have had decline in talent over last decade,is no guarantee for instant success (Central being polar opposite to that statement obviously-again new era,new day). Folks from PV/Appy have gotten spoiled because of the success that used to be years ago. Be patient and let the staff get it together. Rome was not built in a day. If you can't be patient,after you run them off then do it yourself and spare the rest of us the incessant bitching and whining. Just some thoughts from someone outside of that program.

The talent's there.. I'd do it

**Biggin** · October 24th, 2011, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by R13

I said he would have the same record, why? Because they were beaten by a better team and it doesn't matter if Phil had 600 wins and 14 titles(we're again talking about 80's/90's in their glory days), they would have still lost all of those games. Would some plays here and there be different? Sure, but the outcome would be the same. Again, until you tell me what phil or Palmer would have done so differently to change the outcome of those games and fill in the gap in talent...then this whole Turner thing is moot, which it is, because you can't say that their season would have been significantly different no matter if it was Turner or not. They're just not that good, plain and simple, crucifying Turner doesn't change that no matter how much Union fans want to think so. Everyone can see it except them.
'

Specific examples like horrible time management at the end of every game? The lack of working adjustments after halftime? The elementary playbook? The lack of anything working on special teams?

Its not just about specific examples, even though I could go on those for a while. Its more about a team that is well-prepared, executed well, and get the best out of their players. Phil showed for a hundred years that his teams would be-
A) VERY prepared
B) focused mentally
C) able to execute their plays.
None of those have happened this year. Its Week 8, and UHS has to take TWO timeouts on one play? How bout not using TOs earlier in teh GC game when it was still game to extend the game?

Im gonna catch hell for this, because apparently CW is 100000x better than UHS and every player is 10x better than anything Union has, but I have a hard time believing that Phil Robbins would let a 20 point first quarter lead just disappear.

You ever wonder why "everybody can see it but them"? Maybe its because some people have seen UHS more than once, seen what these same players did last year, people that know the kids and know the team?

I have never once said Travis Turner should be fired, or that he should be ran out of town after this year. Please go find where I posted that. All I have said is I don't think the Union football team has played up to their potential, and most of that has to fall on the coaching staff.

**Ironlung** · October 24th, 2011, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Biggin

Im gonna catch hell for this, because apparently CW is 100000x better than UHS and every player is 10x better than anything Union has.

First of all that was never said by anyone. Second, Clintwood does have 5-10 kids that are better than anyone Union has. The same can be said about Burton. That's not saying that they don't have kids that are talented, that have some skill, but the kids that you see and you say "Wow." about, they must be on a water break when the camera starts rolling. These better kids at Clintwood and Burton aren't world class athletes and would for the most part be riding the bench in 1994. They are the ones who put up numbers, make plays, and show up visibly to anyone watching though.

Originally Posted by Biggin

You ever wonder why "everybody can see it but them"? Maybe its because some people have seen UHS more than once, seen what these same players did last year, people that know the kids and know the team? .

I've seen 3 different Union games this year and I don't see it. You were talking about seeing something in practice today and that's all well and good. Let's say they have D1/All American/Pro Bowl players falling off the bench, apparently they get stage fright because it doesn't show when the lights come on. Bad coaching, bad teams, this, that, the other thing can't hide a kid that's as talented as what you're trying to sell these kids as being. The Balthis kid who was at Pound the past 4 years was one of if not the best player in the LPD the past couple years. Coaching, bad teams, bad whatever couldn't hide that.